Million Bazillion answers your questions about money

MOLLY BLOOM: Hi, friends. We are sharing an extra special episode with you today from our friends at Million Bazillion, the podcast that answers the questions kids have about money. They help dollars make more sense, and they're back for a whole new season.

Million Bazillion is a collaboration between us at Brains On! and the public radio show Marketplace. It's hosted by friends Jed Kim and Bridget Bodnar. You can find it wherever you get your podcasts. All right, on with the show.

SHOP EMPLOYEE: Here's your change. And here's your king size tub of crunchy broccoli clumps.

JED KIM: Thank you.

SHOP EMPLOYEE: Have a nice day.

[CRUNCHING]

ROBIN HOOD: Sir? Sir?

JED KIM: Are you talking to me?

ROBIN HOOD: Your money, sir. You left it behind.

JED KIM: Oh, thanks! Gee, $0.14. Did I drop this?

ROBIN HOOD: Oh, no, sir. I've simply rescued your sales tax from that broccoli shop.

JED KIM: You did what now?

BRIDGET BODNAR: Hey, Jed.

JED KIM: Hey, Bridget.

BRIDGET BODNAR: Eating more broccoli clumps?

JED KIM: Yep

BRIDGET BODNAR: Who's your friend in the green tights?

JED KIM: I don't know this guy.

ROBIN HOOD: 'Tis I, Robin Hood. Perhaps you've heard of me and my exploits. I steal from the rich, and I give to the poor. I live in Sherwood Forest with my band of Merry Men, handy with a bow and arrow.

JED KIM: Hey, what are you doing, dude?

BRIDGET BODNAR: Yeah, I'm familiar. I guess I was just thrown off since this isn't 13th-century England. What brings you to our neck of the woods, or millennium?

ROBIN HOOD: I am on an endless quest to fight the injustice of taxation. Your corrupt king shall no longer line his pockets with his ill-gotten coins.

JED KIM: Coins aren't right. This is just a diamond for pennies.

ROBIN HOOD: You're welcome.

JED KIM: Also, how did you get this money?

ROBIN HOOD: I stole it. How else? Fret not. Taxes are unfair burdens. They basically robbed you first. I'm merely righting the wrong.

BRIDGET BODNAR: Wait, what? You can't just not pay sales tax. It's part of the price at the register. You can't get anything without paying it.

ROBIN HOOD: Well, that's why I steal it afterwards. It's easy. Besides, who's going to stop me?

BRIDGET BODNAR: There he is, Officer-- the one in the green tights.

ROBIN HOOD: Jeez, it's the Sheriff.

LARRY: (SINGING) Robin Hood, Bridget, and Jed are heading for adventure

Learning about the tax system and fees they gotta pay

Robin's got a mission to stop all taxes that are due

Oh good golly, this'll probably be a real weird day

BRIDGET BODNAR: You have a troubadour?

ROBIN HOOD: I find that theme music really helps move things along.

[DRUM ROLL]

JED KIM: Hey, everyone, welcome back to Million Bazillion, where we help dollars make more sense. I'm Jed.

BRIDGET BODNAR: And I'm Bridget. Today, we've got a question about taxes. That's the money people pay to the government and which the government spends in a bunch of different ways.

JED KIM: Yeah. You know how you might buy something for $1, but the price at checkout is actually maybe $1.07. That $0.07 is the tax added to your purchase.

BRIDGET BODNAR: We also pay taxes on things like our homes or property and the money we earn.

JED KIM: So here's the question.

LUCINDA: This is Lucinda and then Annabelle from Paris, France.

ANNABELLE: Why do we have to pay tax if the government doesn't have to pay for building roads and schools and stuff like that anymore?

JED KIM: So we use taxes to build roads and schools and other things. And Lucinda and Annabelle want to know why we keep paying even after those things are built? Great question! OK, where should we start with this one?

BRIDGET BODNAR: We did just meet someone who seems to have really strong feelings about taxes.

JED KIM: You want us to go see that Robin Hood guy, don't you?

BRIDGET BODNAR: Well, let's just go find out what he has to say.

JED KIM: All right. Let's go find him, after this.

BRIDGET BODNAR: And now it's time for asking random kids not so random questions. Today's question is, how would you make paying taxes more fun?

PABLO: Paying taxes would be more fun if we got marshmallows back in return.

PARKER: I would unfold the taxes up and fly them to the government.

IRINA: There'd be little coupons as you go along with paying taxes or whatever. It would kind like a treasure hunt.

SANGAM: The people who you're paying their taxes to would give you any stuffed animal you wanted.

SYLVIA: One way I'd make taxes more fun would be to make them go straight to helping stray animals and animal shelters.

CORBIN: Paying taxes would be more fun if you get double the money.

ELIJAH: I would make paying taxes more fun by turning it into a video game, because everyone likes video games.

JED KIM: They're video games.

BRIDGET BODNAR: That was Pablo in Seattle, Parker in Virginia, Irina in Massachusetts, Sangam in India, Sylvia in Connecticut, Corbin in Oakland, and Elijah in Atlanta. This has been asking random kids not so random questions.

[MARCHING BAND MUSIC]

JED KIM: Hey, Robin! What are you doing up in that tree, buddy?

ROBIN HOOD: Here in this mighty oak, I have a prime viewing location, from which to spot your king and his nefarious tax-collecting agents.

JED KIM: What are you talking about? We don't have kings.

BRIDGET BODNAR: Why don't you come down? His tights are going to be covered in tree sap.

ROBIN HOOD: Then who do your tax collectors gather the taxes for? Pray tell.

JED KIM: Tax collectors. Oh, you mean the Internal Revenue Service? I don't think they actually go around pestering people for more taxes. Generally, we just pay them. We complain about it sometimes, but we still pay.

ROBIN HOOD: Nay. I say nay. This cannot be. And yet, if there is no king to hoard the tax dollars you say your countrymen willingly pay, what happens to all the money?

BRIDGET BODNAR: Instead of a king, we vote for the people who will spend our tax money on the things we care about.

ROBIN HOOD: On what you care about? This is absurd. Who ever heard of such a thing? What do the people of this land even care about, then?

JED KIM: Well, here's one way to understand how we spend our tax dollars. And I think you're going to like it. For this, I'm going to need my list of how states spend the tax money they collect and also a big old sack of one hundred gold coins. Are you picturing the gold coin dropping?

ROBIN HOOD: Oh, yes. Yes, I can see it in my mind's eye.

JED KIM: The gold coins represent the taxes we pay. So let's see what we spend them on-- the programs we care about. So to start, let's put 22 coins aside to pay for programs that give a little extra to families that might need it if they lose their income or they need health insurance.

ROBIN HOOD: You don't need a government for that. Me and my Merry Men did this back in Sherwood Forest. We'd steal from those hoarding riches and give it to those in need. Huzzah!

JED KIM: So 22 coins are gone. Now, that might sound like a lot, but we set aside even more for education. Take out another 30 or so coins from the bag. That's kindergarten through 12th grade and also state colleges and universities. And just like that, more than half the bag is gone.

ROBIN HOOD: Well, that's a lot of money gone right quick.

BRIDGET BODNAR: Yeah. And the thing about schools, we still build new schools, sure. But we also have to maintain or keep up the ones we've already built. And every school year, we've got to pay to keep those schools running-- fund the libraries, that sort of thing.

ROBIN HOOD: I see, yes. And you teach archery and lute repair at these schools, yes?

JED KIM: Hey, wait. That's the answer to Lucinda and Annabelle's question, not the lute thing. I mean that we keep paying taxes for schools because we need to keep running them. We still care about them year after year, so we have to pay year after year.

It's the same thing with roads and bridges. After we've built them, we still need to fill those potholes, plow them if it snows. Every year, roads need money, which, by the way, takes about another six coins from the bag.

LARRY: (SINGING) Oh, Robin looks like quite a heal

The taxes he was going to steal

Are important what's his deal?

JED KIM: What?

ROBIN HOOD: You're on thin ice here, troubadour Larry.

BRIDGET BODNAR: So, back to the bag of coins. We've got about 10 coins for hospitals and other health programs. The average state sets aside about nine coins total for police, prisons, and courts.

ROBIN HOOD: Oh, I myself have escaped from many a prison with the help of my band of Merry Men. While there was one time, I thought I was--

JED KIM: Getting kind of late.

BRIDGET BODNAR: Sure, but there's still about 22 coins left. Then we get to programs that get a few coins here, a few coins there. Like, parks and recreation usually get about two coins. States usually spend another two coins on firefighters. Fun fact, they also spend about that much on sewers and drains, two coins.

JED KIM: That's good money down the drain. Yeah?

ROBIN HOOD: Wait, you pay for sewers? What ever happened to just pooping in the woods, like in good old times?

BRIDGET BODNAR: Hard pass.

JED KIM: Anyway, this gives you an idea of what things states think are important. Every town is making its own decisions with its budget. And these choices are made at the national level, too, as a whole country.

ROBIN HOOD: This tells me a great deal about what the people of this land find important. But I do think more should be spent on forestry. Really, a measly two coins on parks and recreation, that's no way to live. And say, what if you don't agree with what the rest of your countrymen want to spend their tax dollars on? What if you don't like taxes at all?

BRIDGET BODNAR: Well, you wouldn't be the only one. Lots of people argue about how much tax we should pay and what we should spend it on. Plenty of people think the system is unfair.

ROBIN HOOD: I knew it. Injustice abounds. I am right to strike back at the taxes that trouble the good people of this land. Fetch my bow so I can take down this system.

JED KIM: Not so fast, tight pants Everdeen. Here in America, we have another way to change things if we don't like our taxes. We'll explain in just a minute. In the meantime, if any of you listeners have a question about money you want us to answer, send it to us at marketplace.org/million.

LARRY: (SINGING) Oh, Robin Hood and tights of green

Discovers taxes aren't so mean

And no one needed all his thieving ways

ROBIN HOOD: Troubadour Larry, you're out of the band.

JED KIM: So Bridget, Robin Hood may be the only person we know who can pull off wearing green tights, kind of. But he isn't the only person who gets upset over taxes. People argue over them all the time.

BRIDGET BODNAR: And yet, we still pay them. What's up with that?

JED KIM: I know someone who knows the answer.

RENU ZARETSKY: And that's me.

JED KIM: Meet Renu Zaretsky. She's a writer with the Tax Policy Center, and so she knows all about taxes like, why we pay them and how we feel about them.

RENU ZARETSKY: The thing I love most about tax policy is that I could find a tax angle about pretty much anything somebody wants to talk about.

JED KIM: She told me that in this country, we kind of love taxes.

RENU ZARETSKY: People feel good about paying taxes. We like to do it. We know it's necessary. We're proud. We see it as a patriotic duty to do it.

JED KIM: It's like a chore we might complain about but actually enjoy, like folding towels fresh from the dryer. So warm and staticky. But there is a catch. We only like what we think are good taxes. What makes a tax good?

RENU ZARETSKY: A good tax is going to be fair. It's going to be felt equally by everybody, relative to their ability to pay.

JED KIM: So what does that mean? OK, so putting my pristinely folded stack of towels aside, it's like if my weekend chore is vacuuming and my sister's weekly chore is washing the car, they take us about the same amount of time and effort to do, which feels fair. It's not fun, but it is fair. A good tax is also?

RENU ZARETSKY: --going to be understandable. It's going to be clear to people. They're going to understand why they have to pay it, how it's collected, and how it's used.

JED KIM: A good tax isn't going to be confusing about why or how we're paying it. Actually, that's true for paying taxes and doing chores.

RENU ZARETSKY: I get it. And when a tax doesn't feel fair or it's confusing, that's maybe when we start to get annoyed by them. Take that chores example. Let's say one weekend, your sister didn't have to wash the car [THUNDER RUMBLING] because it rained. The car is clean and your sister didn't have to do a thing.

But you still have to vacuum [VACUUMING] because there's no tiny and specific tornado that can come through and suck up all the dust. Ugh, thanks nonexistent tiny and specific tornado. Now this chores thing is starting to feel unfair.

JED KIM: So unfair.

RENU ZARETSKY: I'm guessing it's the same with taxes, right?

JED KIM: It is.

RENU ZARETSKY: One of the big things right now that people point to that they do not like that they see is terribly unfair is people or companies that are paying less than they think they should be paying. It just seems like they're getting away with something, or they think that there is a loophole or some kind of trick they're playing with the law and they're not paying their fair share.

JED KIM: And when it seems like some people aren't being taxed in the same way that everyone else is, that's when things don't feel so good anymore.

RENU ZARETSKY: And then we get mad. That's what causes fights. That's what causes some anger. Because everybody wants to pay their taxes, but nobody wants to pay more than they have to. That's a pretty normal feeling.

JED KIM: Here's the good news, though. We have more choices now and here than Robin Hood did back in medieval England. His land was ruled by a king who decided alone how much to tax people, when he felt like collecting those taxes, and what to spend them on. That's not the case here.

BRIDGET BODNAR: That's right. We vote for the people who work together to decide where our tax dollars go. If you want to know more about how that tax spending works in your area, check out our website marketplace.org/million.

JED KIM: Because learning more about your tax dollars and what they can do can be as satisfying as a well-folded linen closet. Mmm. So organized.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

SAVVY: Hi, I'm savvy.

ZAYA: I'm Zaya.

SAVVY: We're from Los Angeles, California. Here are some money jokes for you. What is brown and has a head and tail, but no legs? A penny.

ZAYA: [LAUGHS] That's funny.

SAVVY: What is the easiest way to double your money? Use a mirror.

ZAYA: Oh, that's super funny.

SAVVY: What is the richest part of the river?

ZAYA: I don't know.

SAVVY: The riverbank.

ZAYA: That's the funniest one.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

BRIDGET BODNAR: Well, look who it is, Robin Hood. I almost didn't recognize you in that suit.

ROBIN HOOD: Good 'morrow, Bridget, Jed.

JED KIM: I would have recognized him. Those are the tightest suit pants I've ever seen, plus that bow and arrow.

BRIDGET BODNAR: So what's with the new getup? What are you up to these days?

ROBIN HOOD: Well, I've put my thieving days behind me. Now the Merry Men and I are community organizers, trying to get the word out to voters about how we think taxes should be used.

BRIDGET BODNAR: Well, that's a much more civically minded way of handling things. What ways of spending do you support?

ROBIN HOOD: Well, more money for the poor, of course, and incentives for arrow production.

JED KIM: Of course.

ROBIN HOOD: Would you care to sign our petition to increase park funding?

BRIDGET BODNAR: I'd be glad to. Wait a minute. This isn't a petition. This is a letter granting you access to my bank account and all my money.

ROBIN HOOD: Old habits die hard.

JED KIM: OK, well, we got to get out of here. Troubadour Larry, lay down a tune as we get ready to go.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

Taxes might not be fun to pay. No one likes feeling like they're spending extra money. But as we learned today, they go to pay for a lot of things our society has decided are important.

BRIDGET BODNAR: Of course, it's not a perfect system. And sometimes we disagree about them. It's easy for people just to get mad at taxes and say things like, they're too high, or we should get rid of them all together.

JED KIM: It's harder to look into issues and make up your mind about them, and really, really hard to do something to change things. Next time you hear a grown-up saying something like, taxes are the worst, ask them, which taxes and what they'd be willing to give up in order not to pay them.

BRIDGET BODNAR: We bet after a while, they'll stop complaining about taxes, at least when you're around.

JED KIM: Grown-ups complain way too much. They need to chill. It's almost as bad as when you get crunchy broccoli clumps stuck between your teeth. Man, food is the worst.

[DRUM ROLL]

BRIDGET BODNAR: Well, that's it for now. Thanks for listening to Million Bazillion where we help dollars make more sense.

JED KIM: Next time, we're answering a big question about banks. If you've got an idea for an episode or a question you want answered, email us at marketplace.org/million.

BRIDGET BODNAR: If you liked this episode and you want to know more, check out our brand-new bonus newsletter for kids and their grown-ups. There's a listener tip sheet and a super fun comic about taxes. Sign up today at marketplace.org/bonus, and we'll send it right to your email inbox.

JED KIM: Plus, you'll be the first to know when we've got new episodes and other stuff from our team, like how to get your own Million Brazilian T-shirt. That's marketplace.org/bonus.

BRIDGET BODNAR: We had help making this episode-- special thanks to Renu Zaretsky at the Tax Policy Center for helping us understand the answer to this question, and to the voicing talents of Kimberly Adams, Sabri Ben-Achour, Marc Sanchez, and Becca Weinman.

JED: Million Bazillion is brought to you by Marketplace in collaboration with Brains On! and American Public Media. I'm your host, Jed Kim. The senior producer is my co-host, Bridget Bodnar. Marissa Cabrera is our producer. Sanden Totten is our editor. Chris Juhlin is our sound designer. Our theme music was created by Wonderly.

This episode was mixed by Becca Weinman. Our digital team includes Erica Phillips and Tony Wagner. And Sitara Nieves is the executive director of on demand at Marketplace.

BRIDGET BODNAR: And special thanks to the people who provided the startup funding for Million Bazillion and who continued to help keep us going. The Ranzetta Family Charitable Fund and Next Gen Personal Finance, supporting Marketplace's work to make younger audiences smarter about the economy.

JED KIM: To all the grown-ups listening right now, we hope that you and the kids in your life are having some good conversations about money thanks to a Million Bazillion. We created this podcast to help kids get an early start on learning about the economy. And to keep it going, we're counting on your support. Donate today at marketplace.org/givemillion. And thanks for chipping in to make our work possible.

[MUSIC PLAYING]