Is hypnosis real?
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Hypnosis. You’ve seen it in movies, cartoons, and maybe even on stage! But is it real? And if so, what is it?
Join Molly and co-host Jasmine as they uncover the truth about hypnosis and its power to heal. They’ll hear from pediatrician and hypnosis expert, Dr. Daniel Kohen, about what it is and isn’t. (Spoiler alert – it isn’t mind control!) They’ll also chat with 13-year-old Joshua who uses hypnosis to overcome anxiety! Plus, a special appearance from the ghost of Franz Mesmer, a famous practitioner and the man behind the word mesmerizing. Entranced? Stick around for a new and puzzling mystery sound!
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JASMINE: You're listening to Brains On, where we're serious about being curious.
SUBJECT 1: Brains On is supported in part by a grant from the National Science Foundation.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Hey, Penelope Poodle, guess what?
[DOG BARKS]
I'm taking you to the vet to get hypnotized. Apparently, hypnosis can help people kick bad habits. And you're practically people, so I know it'll work. Oh, I'm so excited. You're finally going to stop chewing my shoes.
[DOG BARKS]
Oh, come on, Penelope. Don't play innocent with me. Batting your eyelashes isn't going to work. Look, we all know you're chewing my shoes. I mean, who else could it be?
[DOG WINES]
Hmm, that's what I thought. Come on, Penelope.
[DOG GROWLS]
Penelope. No, no. Don't run away. Stay. OK, fine, I'll follow you. What the-- Marc?
MARC SANCHEZ: Sanden?
SANDEN TOTTEN: What are you doing with my shoe in your mouth?
MARC SANCHEZ: Uh.
SANDEN TOTTEN: You're chewing my brand new Jordans. Why?
MARC SANCHEZ: Well, I read chewing tough things is great at strengthening your jaw. And I need a really strong jaw to get through my Taco Tuesday chompathon. Plus I wasn't about to chew my own brand new Jordans.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Penelope, I am so sorry. Can you ever forgive me? I owe you a major apology.
[DOG BARKS]
And Marc, you owe me some new shoes.
MARC SANCHEZ: Ooh.
[THEME MUSIC]
MOLLY BLOOM: You're listening to Brains On from APM Studios. I'm your host Molly Bloom, and my co-host today is Jasmine from Minneapolis, Minnesota. Hi, Jasmine.
JASMINE: Hi, Molly.
MOLLY BLOOM: Today, we're exploring hypnosis, what it is, and how it works. It's a topic we've gotten a few questions about.
ELIJAH: Is hypnosis real?
DENNIS: If it's even real, how does hypnosis work?
MOLLY BLOOM: That was Elijah in Columbia, South Carolina and Dennis in Kirkland, Washington. Hypnosis might seem like something straight out of a comic book. But it's actually a real practice. We're going to start by talking about hypnotherapy, which is the type of hypnosis doctors use.
JASMINE: Hypnosis is something doctors and other medical workers have been doing in various forms for thousands of years.
MOLLY BLOOM: They can use it to help patients with all sorts of things from being less afraid of needles--
JASMINE: To feeling less anxiety and stress around a surgery.
MOLLY BLOOM: It can even help pregnant people stay calm through childbirth.
JASMINE: But the question is, How does it work?
ROSIE DUPONT: You're getting relax-cited. Very relax-cited.
MOLLY BLOOM: Brains On producer Rosie DuPont?
ROSIE DUPONT: Why, yes, Molly Bloom. I sense you and Jasmine are getting relax-cited to talk about hypnosis, woo.
MOLLY BLOOM: Relax-cited?
ROSIE DUPONT: Relaxed and excited at the same time. It's my new favorite way to be. It's sort of eating a massive bucket of pink cotton candy while it's trying to float motionless on my back in a warm turquoise pool. And I'm relax-cited to talk to you about how hypnosis works. So to start, let's talk about what hypnotherapy is.
I want an expert opinion, so I called up Dr. Daniel Cohen, or as he likes to be called, Dr. Dan. He's a pediatrician from Minnesota, which means he's a doctor for kids. And he's been practicing hypnosis with his patients for years. I asked him how he defines it.
DANIEL COHEN: Formal hypnosis is learning how to utilize natural abilities, imagination, pretending, daydreaming, how to get to those on purpose in a controlled environment with a clinician who is expert in that area, and to use that for solving a particular problem.
ROSIE DUPONT: So basically, hypnosis is when a person enters a relaxed state of awareness similar to daydreaming with the help of a doctor. They're not sleeping, and they know what's going on around them. But they feel very chill. Once they're in this calm state of mind, they're more open to suggestions, which makes it easier for them to change their thoughts and behaviors.
MOLLY BLOOM: So it's a way to just open up your mind to doing things differently?
ROSIE DUPONT: Exactly. Another way to think about it is hypnosis is made up of three ingredients, dissociation, absorption, and suggestibility.
MOLLY BLOOM: Cool. Let's break down those words. Dissociation means like zoning out or playing pretend.
JASMINE: Or dreaming while you're awake.
ROSIE DUPONT: So during hypnosis you can be sitting on your bedroom floor, but in your imagination, you might be in the rain forest. And it'll actually feel like you're surrounded by trees and moss and sloths. Then there's absorption.
JASMINE: I know this one. Absorption is when you're so caught up in your imagination, you don't notice what's going on around you. You're totally absorbed in what you're doing.
MOLLY BLOOM: Sort of like when you're reading a book and you're so lost in the story, you don't hear your mom calling you for dinner.
ROSIE DUPONT: And once you're totally absorbed or in a trance, most people relax and open up to other people's suggestions.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, that's the third word you mentioned, suggestibility. That means you're very open to new ideas from other people.
ROSIE DUPONT: Right. So if a hypnotherapist tells you your arm feels as light as a balloon, your arm might start to feel like it's floating. Or if your eyes are closed, and they tell you your eyelids are so heavy you can't open your eyes, you might start to feel like you can't open them.
JASMINE: Ooh, that one make me nervous.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah. Can someone who practices hypnosis make someone do things they don't want to do?
DANIEL COHEN: Nothing happens unless you decide and you are willing and want to do it. It's up to you because you are the boss of your body.
MOLLY BLOOM: So people have to want to do the things suggested to them.
ROSIE DUPONT: Exactly. So hypnosis isn't sleep, and you don't lose consciousness. All a doctor can do is allow you to do something you already want to do deep down. And this is usually how hypnosis works. But different people respond in different ways.
MOLLY BLOOM: I've heard about this. For some people it works like a charm. But for others it can be really tough for hypnosis to work.
ROSIE DUPONT: Yes, scientists have been studying what makes people easy to hypnotize. And it seems like a trait that's passed down from one generation to another.
JASMINE: Which means if your parents are easy to hypnotize, you might be too.
ROSIE DUPONT: Exactly. In general though, people who are easy to hypnotize tend to trust people more and use their imaginations a lot. Jasmine, do you think you would be easy to hypnotize?
JASMINE: No, because I feel like I'm more aware of what's going on around me.
ROSIE DUPONT: What about you, Molly?
MOLLY BLOOM: I think I couldn't be hypnotize either. I'm kind of cynical about certain things. And I don't think it would work on me. But I do like to imagine a lot, so maybe it would. Who knows?
ROSIE DUPONT: Well, I think I'd actually be really easy to hypnotize because I'm very imaginative. I use my imagination to get relax-cited. Sometimes I like to imagine myself dribbling down a soccer field as fast as I can. I look up. I shoot. I score.
[CHEERING]
The crowd goes wild. And then I lean in and sniff a rose on a rose bush and chant. Om.
JASMINE: Back on track, Rosie.
ROSIE DUPONT: Yes. Hi. Hello. Hi. Oh. Haha. So to enter a hypnotic state, you have to be at least a little bit hypnotizable, which almost everyone is. And you have to have a good relationship with your doctor. You have to trust them.
Once you're comfortable, your doctor will usually do a test run, so you can see how it works and feels. Dr. Dan said it might go something like this.
DANIEL COHEN: Close your eyes and put your attention completely and totally on the sound of the air flowing in the room. Whether it's heat or air conditioning, they can hear it. Let your head nod when you hear it. A slow nod comes from the subconscious mind. And it's not like you would do if you were nodding your head on purpose. It's like slow motion on TV or in a movie.
So then I asked them to turn it up in their mind. Let's say it goes from 0 to 10. Turn up the sound to about 7. And I don't have to ask him to nod, then they nod when they've done it. And that's the proof that this is a hypnotic experience. Their head knows to nod automatically without a request. And then turn it all the way up to 10, blast it. When it's there and you can't stand it anymore, then turn it right down to zero. And then their heads nod. And then they open their eyes. And I say, what'd you think? And the kid always says that was cool.
MOLLY BLOOM: So to enter a hypnotic state, people like Dr. Dan will ask patients to focus on different images, sounds or sensations, take deep breaths, and focus.
ROSIE DUPONT: Hmm-mm. Doctors do whatever helps you focus and slip into an imaginative world. Once you're there, your doctor will gently suggest things to you to help you solve problems and achieve your goals. Dr. Dan talked about some of the ways hypnosis has helped his patients.
DANIEL COHEN: Hypnosis is very helpful for a lot of problems that kids run into in their lives. Bedwetting is one of them. Headaches is another one. Tummy aches, different kinds of pain are all helped very easily by hypnosis.
ROSIE DUPONT: I actually asked a patient of Dr. Dan's to join us in the studio today. He did hypnotherapy with Dr. Dan for a while, and it helped him a ton. Now he practices self-hypnosis at home.
MOLLY BLOOM: Self-hypnosis is when someone puts themselves into that super-focused suggestible state that we just talked about instead of working with a doctor.
[KNOCKS]
ROSIE DUPONT: Ooh, that must be him now. Ooh, how relax-citing. Thanks for coming. Everyone, this is Josh from Mapple Grove, Minnesota.
JOSH: Hi.
MOLLY BLOOM: Welcome. We're so glad you're here.
JASMINE: Hi.
MOLLY BLOOM: So it's lovely to have you here in the studio. We've been learning all about hypnosis and hypnotherapy today. And we are very interested to talk to you about your experience with it.
JOSH: Yes, I'm glad to talk about it.
MOLLY BLOOM: Sweet.
JASMINE: So when did you first try hypnosis?
JOSH: About two years ago in 2021.
JASMINE: Nice. Why did you start hypnosis, Josh?
JOSH: I didn't really want to, but my parents during 2021, my parents signed me up for it. And I met Dr. Dan for the first time because of anxiety during 2021, and it helped me a lot.
MOLLY BLOOM: So when you went in for the first time, how did it feel to be hypnotized for the first time?
JOSH: It felt really cool, like it just felt-- it was a very different experience than anything I've really felt before. But it's very calming. And you just-- you're really just in a different world when you're like really in the state of mind.
MOLLY BLOOM: And did it help you with your anxiety kind of right away, or was it a process where you had to kind of do it a few times?
JOSH: It was more of a process. Like after a while, it took me a few weeks or months to really get it down, and then just I could do it whenever I want. And then it really started helping me with that.
JASMINE: Yeah, was it scary the first time?
JOSH: Yeah, because it's a bit weird because in movies and shows, you always see the little like stopwatch. And you're like you are going to fall asleep. But it's nothing like that whatsoever. It's just about you just sit there and you just get in that state of mind and you take deep breaths, and you-- it's just very calming. But yeah, I was a bit scared the first time.
JASMINE: Do when you're hypnotized?
JOSH: Yeah, I picture I'm swimming in a lake, and it's very calming. And there's turtles. You can do whatever you want to. You can play chess with the turtle. And it's just-- and it's like you're just right there doing it. And it's really fascinating. It's cool.
MOLLY BLOOM: Chess with the turtle. That's very cool. Is that something you've actually imagined?
JOSH: Yes, sometimes I'm like swimming. And then I like get out of the lake, and I'm like, oh, there's a turtle. And then I go sit with a turtle and play chess.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's awesome.
JOSH: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: Are you are you good at chess? Does the turtle beat you? Like what's happening?
JOSH: He does beat me a lot.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh.
JOSH: It's really annoying.
MOLLY BLOOM: I guess you have to practice. So is the lake place you go usually?
JOSH: Yeah, I usually go that to there. And Dr. Dan always said it's like flipping channels. You can go wherever you want. Like sometimes I'm playing baseball, or sometimes I'm just walking along a beach. Sometimes I'm in my school. I'm doing a test or something. It can be anything.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's really cool. I wondered if you could describe the difference between maybe trying meditation versus trying self-hypnosis.
JOSH: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think meditation is more like you're-- like self-reflection. But self-hypnosis, it's kind of like that, but it's more of an imagination.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hmm. So meditation is almost like emptying your mind?
JOSH: Yeah. And then, yeah, self-hypnosis is filling your mind with good stuff.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's so cool. Can you sort of describe the way it does help with your anxiety? Like, what about it is helpful?
JOSH: Like if I go to that lake, or if I'm playing a baseball game, and like it's just those things that make me joyful like normally like without hypnosis. And just doing that, like, because I'm usually not as stressed out when I'm playing baseball. But like it's the difference. If I'm at school or something, and I'm trying to be more calm, or with my siblings yelling and screaming all the time, it's like when you're there, it just it really does-- like once you stop doing it, and you go back to normal, it's just like you feel you really do have it under control. And it's like, if it's like a 10 with anxiety, it really brings you back to a 3.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's really cool. So it's almost like you're able to travel to a place where you're calm. And it kind of teaches your brain like you can be calm whenever you want.
JOSH: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: Very cool.
JASMINE: How do you go really into self-hypnosis?
JOSH: Yeah, that's a great question. Some people can just fall back into a chair and just do it. Usually, I have to lay down. I close my eyes. And as Dr. Dan told me, you have to breathe in and notice when you're breathing in, you're breathing in good thoughts and good feelings and then breathing out. And it's like you really have to imagine it, like breathing in and breathing out, and like feeling that and like breathing out the bad feelings and breathing in the good ones.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's really cool. Josh, thank you so much for sharing all this with us today. Really appreciate it.
JOSH: Yeah, thank you.
JASMINE: Bye.
JOSH: Bye-bye.
ROSIE DUPONT: Bye. OK, I've got to go too. All this talk about turtles playing chess has made me relax-cited to try hypnosis myself. But first, I have to go buy a taxidermied rat for my uncle.
MOLLY BLOOM: What? Why?
ROSIE DUPONT: It's a secret. Ta-ta.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK. See ya.
JASMINE: Bye-bye.
MOLLY BLOOM: Taxidermied rat, that's a bit of a mystery. Are you ready for another one, Jasmine?
JASMINE: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: Great. Then it's time for the--
[AUDIO LOGO]
SUBJECT 2: Mystery sound.
MOLLY BLOOM: Are you ready for the mystery sound, Jasmine?
JASMINE: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK.
[CLANK]
What do you think?
JASMINE: Maybe like some pots and pans like banging together in the kitchen.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hmm, very good guess.
JASMINE: I feel like it's like at the end it's like someone plopping down on something.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK.
JASMINE: Maybe.
MOLLY BLOOM: Do you still hear the pots and pans first?
JASMINE: Yeah. I think I still do.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK. Pots and pans and then some plopping. So in what scenario would someone be having pots and pans and then plopping do you think?
JASMINE: Maybe they like just-- I don't really know what scenario. But I think it's in the kitchen.
MOLLY BLOOM: Maybe they're cooking a big dinner. They're exhausted.
JASMINE: And then they just want to sit down on a chair or something.
MOLLY BLOOM: They need a break. Like, I'm going to plop on this chair for a second, catch my breath, and then I'll finish the mashed potatoes. We'll hear it again, get another chance to guess, and hear the answer at the end of the show.
JASMINE: So stick around.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Hey, friends, we're working on an episode all about matches. Those incredible little wooden sticks that make fire when you strike them on a surface. And we want to hear from you. If you could come up with a new name for matches, what would it be? Maybe a spark maker, or flame sprites. Jasmine, what do you think? What is your new name for matches?
JASMINE: Maybe like a mini lava stick.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, yeah. That's a very exciting name. Listeners, please record yourself delivering your new name for matches. You can send them to us at brainson.org/contact. And while you're there, you can send us mystery sounds, drawings, and questions.
JASMINE: Like this one.
SUBJECT 3: What happens if you put too much yeast in bread?
MOLLY BLOOM: Again, that's brainson.org/contact.
JASMINE: And keep listening.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
SUBJECT 4: Brains On.
JASMINE: You're listening to Brains On. I'm Jasmine.
MOLLY BLOOM: And I'm Molly. And today, we're talking about hypnosis.
JASMINE: We started by talking about hypnotherapy, which is when doctors use hypnosis to help their patients.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hypnosis is when you're guided into a calm unique state of mind, sort of like zoning out or playing pretend. And you get there by being totally absorbed in whatever you're imagining.
JASMINE: And when you're in the state of mind, you become more open to new ideas and suggestions.
MOLLY BLOOM: And with the help of a doctor, hypnosis can help you achieve your goals.
JASMINE: You can even learn self-hypnosis to help yourself at home.
MOLLY BLOOM: There's a bunch of research out there that shows hypnosis can help some people's brains feel better. But some people still don't even think it's real.
JASMINE: So let's talk about why some people think about it this way.
MOLLY BLOOM: Well, for one, movies and television make hypnosis seem a little strange or unbelievable. You might have seen hypnosis in movies like Captain Underpants and The Incredibles.
JASMINE: Or in cartoons like Pokémon and Bugs Bunny. And they might have sounded a bit like this.
SUBJECT 5: Watch the pretty coin of gold, and you will do what you are told.
SUBJECT 6: Repeat after me. I don't believe in fairies.
SUBJECT 7: I don't believe in fairies. I don't believe in fairies.
ZACH: Look closely at it and relax your mind.
SUBJECT 8: Zach, why are you showing me an old watch?
ZACH: Shush. Just focus on the watch. Let's talk about dancing. It's--
MOLLY BLOOM: But here's the thing. The hypnosis you see in movies and on TV is not very accurate.
JASMINE: People's eyes don't spin like pinwheels when they're hypnotized.
MOLLY BLOOM: And like we said earlier, it isn't mind control.
JASMINE: You can't make someone do something they don't want to do.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hypnosis is also sometimes used in live magic shows.
JASMINE: Sometimes a performer will get dressed up and hypnotize people on stage in front of an audience just to wow them.
MOLLY BLOOM: These performers use a lot of the same techniques doctors use. Only they aren't trying to help the people on stage.
JASMINE: Yeah, they're just trying to entertain the audience.
MOLLY BLOOM: So sometimes these performers will try to make what they're doing seem like magic.
JASMINE: But it's not.
MOLLY BLOOM: So where did these ideas about hypnosis being magical come from? Franz Mesmer.
FRANZ MESMER: Magical? What poppycock!
JASMINE: Whoa, the ghost of France Mesmer?
FRANZ MESMER: It is I, and I'm hardly magical. I'm mesmerizing.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah, to mesmerize someone means to hold their attention, so they can't look away.
JASMINE: It is hard not to look at you. You've got dazzling eyes, a dashing goatee, and a really cool purple cape.
FRANZ MESMER: Oh, stop, Jasmine. You're making me blush.
MOLLY BLOOM: And the word mesmerize comes from?
FRANZ MESMER: Me, Franz Mesmer, my name. Call me Franz, The mesmerizing Mesmer.
MOLLY BLOOM: Franz Mesmer is often called the father of hypnosis, even though the term hypnosis wasn't invented until decades after he died.
JASMINE: He became famous for using a type of hypnosis to help medical patients feel better.
MOLLY BLOOM: By getting people's brains into that imaginative focused state that we call hypnosis has actually been around for much, much longer.
JASMINE: It was practiced in ancient Greece and Rome, and has been a part of shamanic traditions around the world for centuries.
MOLLY BLOOM: But Franz Mesmer made it popular in Europe. And because he believed in some other pretty strange ideas, people thought he was a little strange too.
FRANZ MESMER: How very rude.
JASMINE: Sorry, but you believed in animal magnetism.
FRANZ MESMER: Of course, I did. I still do.
JASMINE: It makes no sense.
MOLLY BLOOM: Animal magnetism is the theory that all humans have invisible fluid from the stars flowing through thousands of tiny pathways in their bodies.
JASMINE: When people got sick, Mesmer believed that something was blocking these invisible fluids. And it was his job to get them flowing again.
MOLLY BLOOM: To do that, he'd wave his hands in front of his patients' bodies or touch them with magnets and send them into trances. A trance is a lot like that dissociative state we talked about earlier.
JASMINE: And he called this practice mesmerism.
FRANZ MESMER: I wanted to make the name of my technique easy to remember, Mesmer, mesmerism. It's all about branding. Molly, you should start practicing Bloomerism, the practice of podcasting with pizzazz.
MOLLY BLOOM: I'll think about it. But as I was saying, it turns out animal magnetism was not based on real science.
JASMINE: We do not have invisible fluids from the stars flowing through our bodies.
FRANZ MESMER: What?
MOLLY BLOOM: Nope. No invisible star juice. But Mr. Mesmer, you were onto something.
FRANZ MESMER: Of course, I was.
MOLLY BLOOM: Mesmerism, or the practice of sending his patients into trances and suggesting things to them was helping people get better. So throughout the 1800s, psychologists kept trying different versions of Mesmer's techniques. And all the while, patients kept seeing results.
JASMINE: So it was decided that mesmerism wasn't all Hocus Pocus.
MOLLY BLOOM: And it was renamed hypnosis.
JASMINE: And it's still being practiced today.
FRANZ MESMER: See, still totally handsome. Definitely great taste in capes. Well, I must be off, places to go, people to hunt.
MOLLY BLOOM: See ya, Franz.
JASMINE: Bye-bye.
MOLLY BLOOM: So Mesmer's flowing cape, hand-waving, and wild eyes made an impression. Today, we can see stage performers and cartoons use versions of Mesmer's personality and style in their spectacles and shows.
JASMINE: But Molly, there are other reasons why people are not so sure about hypnosis.
MOLLY BLOOM: Right. Because even though research shows that hypnosis works for some people, we don't know exactly how yet or why.
JASMINE: Scientists have studied the brain to try and see what is happening when people are hypnotized.
MOLLY BLOOM: And they found that hypnosis does change the way our brain works.
JASMINE: For example, when people are hypnotized and told that something won't be as painful as they think it would be--
MOLLY BLOOM: The part of their brain that usually lights up and says ow when something hurts, it doesn't react as much during hypnosis.
JASMINE: And because of that, the people actually feel less pain.
MOLLY BLOOM: So something is shifting in our brains when we go into a trance.
JASMINE: Our brains are stepping back, being less judgy, and doing things differently.
MOLLY BLOOM: But we don't really know why.
JASMINE: Hypnosis is a bit of a mystery because when it comes to the brain, there's still a lot to figure out.
MOLLY BLOOM: And mysteries make some people uneasy. But they make me relax-cited. All this hypnosis talk is making me want to try out Rosie's technique of combining thrilling excitement with total relaxation.
JASMINE: Woo. Me too. Want to go meditate on a roller coaster?
MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah, let's go!
[THEME MUSIC]
Hypnosis is a combination of three mental states, dissociation, absorption, and suggestibility.
JASMINE: Which means it feels like dreaming while you're awake. You're totally lost in the movie of your mind.
MOLLY BLOOM: And feeling more open to doing what people suggest to you.
JASMINE: People can't make you do things you don't want to do through hypnosis.
MOLLY BLOOM: And doctors who use it to help their patients are more like coaches who help you achieve your goals.
JASMINE: We don't know exactly how it works, but we know that for many people, it does.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's it for this episode of Brains On.
JASMINE: This episode was written by Rosie DuPont and Lou Baron. It was produced by Molly Bloom, Ruby Guthrie, Anna Goldfield, Aron Woldeslassie, Anna Weggel, and Marc Sanchez.
MOLLY BLOOM: Our editors are Sanden Totten and Shahla Farzan. Sound design by Rachel Breeze with engineering help from Alex Simpson. Beth Perlman is our executive producer. The executives in charge of APM Studios are Chandra Kavati, Alex Schaffert, and Joanne Griffith.
Special Thanks to John Hamilton, Kristen Lundeen, [INAUDIBLE] Rishel, Linda Thompson. And Dr. Daniel Cohen.
JASMINE: Brains On is a nonprofit public radio program.
MOLLY BLOOM: There are lots of ways to support the show. Subscribe to Brains On Universe on YouTube where you can watch animated versions of some of your favorite episodes, or head to brainson.org.
JASMINE: While you're there, you can send us mystery sounds, drawings, and questions.
MOLLY BLOOM: And you can subscribe to our Smarty Pass. It gives you a special ticket to Brains On Universe bonus content plus ad free episodes. OK, Jasmine, are you ready to hear that mystery sound again?
JASMINE: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right. Here it is.
[CLANK]
What do you think?
JASMINE: Now I'm starting to think maybe it's like a chain reaction of some kind.
MOLLY BLOOM: Ooh. what kind of chain reaction?
JASMINE: Maybe like it has to do something with metal, I think.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK. Metals involved. A chain reaction. There was some plopping.
JASMINE: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: Something's happening. I'm going to guess it's a Rube Goldberg machine. It's like one of those contraptions where one thing leads to another, like a marble rolls down and then it makes this thing open, one of those. That's my guess. Should we hear the answer?
JASMINE: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK, here it is.
MAYA: Hi. My name is Maya. And that was the sound of me practicing my gymnastics routine on bars.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow. Amazing.
JASMINE: Yeah. I would never.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
That is a tricky one.
JASMINE: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah, so I guess that was kind of like the springs you were hearing. That was the metal. So you weren't that-- and there was plopping. The end of the routine, there was a plop. So not that far off. Pretty good.
Now it's time for the Brains Honor Roll. These are the incredible kids who keep the show going with their questions, ideas, mystery sounds, drawings, and high-fives.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
[LISTING HONOR ROLL]
SUBJECT 9: Brains Honor Roll.
MOLLY BLOOM: We'll be back next week with a breezy episode all about beachy, beautiful sand.
JASMINE: Thanks for listening.
SUBJECT 1: Brains On is supported in part by a grant from the National Science Foundation.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Hey, Penelope Poodle, guess what?
[DOG BARKS]
I'm taking you to the vet to get hypnotized. Apparently, hypnosis can help people kick bad habits. And you're practically people, so I know it'll work. Oh, I'm so excited. You're finally going to stop chewing my shoes.
[DOG BARKS]
Oh, come on, Penelope. Don't play innocent with me. Batting your eyelashes isn't going to work. Look, we all know you're chewing my shoes. I mean, who else could it be?
[DOG WINES]
Hmm, that's what I thought. Come on, Penelope.
[DOG GROWLS]
Penelope. No, no. Don't run away. Stay. OK, fine, I'll follow you. What the-- Marc?
MARC SANCHEZ: Sanden?
SANDEN TOTTEN: What are you doing with my shoe in your mouth?
MARC SANCHEZ: Uh.
SANDEN TOTTEN: You're chewing my brand new Jordans. Why?
MARC SANCHEZ: Well, I read chewing tough things is great at strengthening your jaw. And I need a really strong jaw to get through my Taco Tuesday chompathon. Plus I wasn't about to chew my own brand new Jordans.
SANDEN TOTTEN: Penelope, I am so sorry. Can you ever forgive me? I owe you a major apology.
[DOG BARKS]
And Marc, you owe me some new shoes.
MARC SANCHEZ: Ooh.
[THEME MUSIC]
MOLLY BLOOM: You're listening to Brains On from APM Studios. I'm your host Molly Bloom, and my co-host today is Jasmine from Minneapolis, Minnesota. Hi, Jasmine.
JASMINE: Hi, Molly.
MOLLY BLOOM: Today, we're exploring hypnosis, what it is, and how it works. It's a topic we've gotten a few questions about.
ELIJAH: Is hypnosis real?
DENNIS: If it's even real, how does hypnosis work?
MOLLY BLOOM: That was Elijah in Columbia, South Carolina and Dennis in Kirkland, Washington. Hypnosis might seem like something straight out of a comic book. But it's actually a real practice. We're going to start by talking about hypnotherapy, which is the type of hypnosis doctors use.
JASMINE: Hypnosis is something doctors and other medical workers have been doing in various forms for thousands of years.
MOLLY BLOOM: They can use it to help patients with all sorts of things from being less afraid of needles--
JASMINE: To feeling less anxiety and stress around a surgery.
MOLLY BLOOM: It can even help pregnant people stay calm through childbirth.
JASMINE: But the question is, How does it work?
ROSIE DUPONT: You're getting relax-cited. Very relax-cited.
MOLLY BLOOM: Brains On producer Rosie DuPont?
ROSIE DUPONT: Why, yes, Molly Bloom. I sense you and Jasmine are getting relax-cited to talk about hypnosis, woo.
MOLLY BLOOM: Relax-cited?
ROSIE DUPONT: Relaxed and excited at the same time. It's my new favorite way to be. It's sort of eating a massive bucket of pink cotton candy while it's trying to float motionless on my back in a warm turquoise pool. And I'm relax-cited to talk to you about how hypnosis works. So to start, let's talk about what hypnotherapy is.
I want an expert opinion, so I called up Dr. Daniel Cohen, or as he likes to be called, Dr. Dan. He's a pediatrician from Minnesota, which means he's a doctor for kids. And he's been practicing hypnosis with his patients for years. I asked him how he defines it.
DANIEL COHEN: Formal hypnosis is learning how to utilize natural abilities, imagination, pretending, daydreaming, how to get to those on purpose in a controlled environment with a clinician who is expert in that area, and to use that for solving a particular problem.
ROSIE DUPONT: So basically, hypnosis is when a person enters a relaxed state of awareness similar to daydreaming with the help of a doctor. They're not sleeping, and they know what's going on around them. But they feel very chill. Once they're in this calm state of mind, they're more open to suggestions, which makes it easier for them to change their thoughts and behaviors.
MOLLY BLOOM: So it's a way to just open up your mind to doing things differently?
ROSIE DUPONT: Exactly. Another way to think about it is hypnosis is made up of three ingredients, dissociation, absorption, and suggestibility.
MOLLY BLOOM: Cool. Let's break down those words. Dissociation means like zoning out or playing pretend.
JASMINE: Or dreaming while you're awake.
ROSIE DUPONT: So during hypnosis you can be sitting on your bedroom floor, but in your imagination, you might be in the rain forest. And it'll actually feel like you're surrounded by trees and moss and sloths. Then there's absorption.
JASMINE: I know this one. Absorption is when you're so caught up in your imagination, you don't notice what's going on around you. You're totally absorbed in what you're doing.
MOLLY BLOOM: Sort of like when you're reading a book and you're so lost in the story, you don't hear your mom calling you for dinner.
ROSIE DUPONT: And once you're totally absorbed or in a trance, most people relax and open up to other people's suggestions.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, that's the third word you mentioned, suggestibility. That means you're very open to new ideas from other people.
ROSIE DUPONT: Right. So if a hypnotherapist tells you your arm feels as light as a balloon, your arm might start to feel like it's floating. Or if your eyes are closed, and they tell you your eyelids are so heavy you can't open your eyes, you might start to feel like you can't open them.
JASMINE: Ooh, that one make me nervous.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah. Can someone who practices hypnosis make someone do things they don't want to do?
DANIEL COHEN: Nothing happens unless you decide and you are willing and want to do it. It's up to you because you are the boss of your body.
MOLLY BLOOM: So people have to want to do the things suggested to them.
ROSIE DUPONT: Exactly. So hypnosis isn't sleep, and you don't lose consciousness. All a doctor can do is allow you to do something you already want to do deep down. And this is usually how hypnosis works. But different people respond in different ways.
MOLLY BLOOM: I've heard about this. For some people it works like a charm. But for others it can be really tough for hypnosis to work.
ROSIE DUPONT: Yes, scientists have been studying what makes people easy to hypnotize. And it seems like a trait that's passed down from one generation to another.
JASMINE: Which means if your parents are easy to hypnotize, you might be too.
ROSIE DUPONT: Exactly. In general though, people who are easy to hypnotize tend to trust people more and use their imaginations a lot. Jasmine, do you think you would be easy to hypnotize?
JASMINE: No, because I feel like I'm more aware of what's going on around me.
ROSIE DUPONT: What about you, Molly?
MOLLY BLOOM: I think I couldn't be hypnotize either. I'm kind of cynical about certain things. And I don't think it would work on me. But I do like to imagine a lot, so maybe it would. Who knows?
ROSIE DUPONT: Well, I think I'd actually be really easy to hypnotize because I'm very imaginative. I use my imagination to get relax-cited. Sometimes I like to imagine myself dribbling down a soccer field as fast as I can. I look up. I shoot. I score.
[CHEERING]
The crowd goes wild. And then I lean in and sniff a rose on a rose bush and chant. Om.
JASMINE: Back on track, Rosie.
ROSIE DUPONT: Yes. Hi. Hello. Hi. Oh. Haha. So to enter a hypnotic state, you have to be at least a little bit hypnotizable, which almost everyone is. And you have to have a good relationship with your doctor. You have to trust them.
Once you're comfortable, your doctor will usually do a test run, so you can see how it works and feels. Dr. Dan said it might go something like this.
DANIEL COHEN: Close your eyes and put your attention completely and totally on the sound of the air flowing in the room. Whether it's heat or air conditioning, they can hear it. Let your head nod when you hear it. A slow nod comes from the subconscious mind. And it's not like you would do if you were nodding your head on purpose. It's like slow motion on TV or in a movie.
So then I asked them to turn it up in their mind. Let's say it goes from 0 to 10. Turn up the sound to about 7. And I don't have to ask him to nod, then they nod when they've done it. And that's the proof that this is a hypnotic experience. Their head knows to nod automatically without a request. And then turn it all the way up to 10, blast it. When it's there and you can't stand it anymore, then turn it right down to zero. And then their heads nod. And then they open their eyes. And I say, what'd you think? And the kid always says that was cool.
MOLLY BLOOM: So to enter a hypnotic state, people like Dr. Dan will ask patients to focus on different images, sounds or sensations, take deep breaths, and focus.
ROSIE DUPONT: Hmm-mm. Doctors do whatever helps you focus and slip into an imaginative world. Once you're there, your doctor will gently suggest things to you to help you solve problems and achieve your goals. Dr. Dan talked about some of the ways hypnosis has helped his patients.
DANIEL COHEN: Hypnosis is very helpful for a lot of problems that kids run into in their lives. Bedwetting is one of them. Headaches is another one. Tummy aches, different kinds of pain are all helped very easily by hypnosis.
ROSIE DUPONT: I actually asked a patient of Dr. Dan's to join us in the studio today. He did hypnotherapy with Dr. Dan for a while, and it helped him a ton. Now he practices self-hypnosis at home.
MOLLY BLOOM: Self-hypnosis is when someone puts themselves into that super-focused suggestible state that we just talked about instead of working with a doctor.
[KNOCKS]
ROSIE DUPONT: Ooh, that must be him now. Ooh, how relax-citing. Thanks for coming. Everyone, this is Josh from Mapple Grove, Minnesota.
JOSH: Hi.
MOLLY BLOOM: Welcome. We're so glad you're here.
JASMINE: Hi.
MOLLY BLOOM: So it's lovely to have you here in the studio. We've been learning all about hypnosis and hypnotherapy today. And we are very interested to talk to you about your experience with it.
JOSH: Yes, I'm glad to talk about it.
MOLLY BLOOM: Sweet.
JASMINE: So when did you first try hypnosis?
JOSH: About two years ago in 2021.
JASMINE: Nice. Why did you start hypnosis, Josh?
JOSH: I didn't really want to, but my parents during 2021, my parents signed me up for it. And I met Dr. Dan for the first time because of anxiety during 2021, and it helped me a lot.
MOLLY BLOOM: So when you went in for the first time, how did it feel to be hypnotized for the first time?
JOSH: It felt really cool, like it just felt-- it was a very different experience than anything I've really felt before. But it's very calming. And you just-- you're really just in a different world when you're like really in the state of mind.
MOLLY BLOOM: And did it help you with your anxiety kind of right away, or was it a process where you had to kind of do it a few times?
JOSH: It was more of a process. Like after a while, it took me a few weeks or months to really get it down, and then just I could do it whenever I want. And then it really started helping me with that.
JASMINE: Yeah, was it scary the first time?
JOSH: Yeah, because it's a bit weird because in movies and shows, you always see the little like stopwatch. And you're like you are going to fall asleep. But it's nothing like that whatsoever. It's just about you just sit there and you just get in that state of mind and you take deep breaths, and you-- it's just very calming. But yeah, I was a bit scared the first time.
JASMINE: Do when you're hypnotized?
JOSH: Yeah, I picture I'm swimming in a lake, and it's very calming. And there's turtles. You can do whatever you want to. You can play chess with the turtle. And it's just-- and it's like you're just right there doing it. And it's really fascinating. It's cool.
MOLLY BLOOM: Chess with the turtle. That's very cool. Is that something you've actually imagined?
JOSH: Yes, sometimes I'm like swimming. And then I like get out of the lake, and I'm like, oh, there's a turtle. And then I go sit with a turtle and play chess.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's awesome.
JOSH: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: Are you are you good at chess? Does the turtle beat you? Like what's happening?
JOSH: He does beat me a lot.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh.
JOSH: It's really annoying.
MOLLY BLOOM: I guess you have to practice. So is the lake place you go usually?
JOSH: Yeah, I usually go that to there. And Dr. Dan always said it's like flipping channels. You can go wherever you want. Like sometimes I'm playing baseball, or sometimes I'm just walking along a beach. Sometimes I'm in my school. I'm doing a test or something. It can be anything.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's really cool. I wondered if you could describe the difference between maybe trying meditation versus trying self-hypnosis.
JOSH: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think meditation is more like you're-- like self-reflection. But self-hypnosis, it's kind of like that, but it's more of an imagination.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hmm. So meditation is almost like emptying your mind?
JOSH: Yeah. And then, yeah, self-hypnosis is filling your mind with good stuff.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's so cool. Can you sort of describe the way it does help with your anxiety? Like, what about it is helpful?
JOSH: Like if I go to that lake, or if I'm playing a baseball game, and like it's just those things that make me joyful like normally like without hypnosis. And just doing that, like, because I'm usually not as stressed out when I'm playing baseball. But like it's the difference. If I'm at school or something, and I'm trying to be more calm, or with my siblings yelling and screaming all the time, it's like when you're there, it just it really does-- like once you stop doing it, and you go back to normal, it's just like you feel you really do have it under control. And it's like, if it's like a 10 with anxiety, it really brings you back to a 3.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's really cool. So it's almost like you're able to travel to a place where you're calm. And it kind of teaches your brain like you can be calm whenever you want.
JOSH: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: Very cool.
JASMINE: How do you go really into self-hypnosis?
JOSH: Yeah, that's a great question. Some people can just fall back into a chair and just do it. Usually, I have to lay down. I close my eyes. And as Dr. Dan told me, you have to breathe in and notice when you're breathing in, you're breathing in good thoughts and good feelings and then breathing out. And it's like you really have to imagine it, like breathing in and breathing out, and like feeling that and like breathing out the bad feelings and breathing in the good ones.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's really cool. Josh, thank you so much for sharing all this with us today. Really appreciate it.
JOSH: Yeah, thank you.
JASMINE: Bye.
JOSH: Bye-bye.
ROSIE DUPONT: Bye. OK, I've got to go too. All this talk about turtles playing chess has made me relax-cited to try hypnosis myself. But first, I have to go buy a taxidermied rat for my uncle.
MOLLY BLOOM: What? Why?
ROSIE DUPONT: It's a secret. Ta-ta.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK. See ya.
JASMINE: Bye-bye.
MOLLY BLOOM: Taxidermied rat, that's a bit of a mystery. Are you ready for another one, Jasmine?
JASMINE: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: Great. Then it's time for the--
[AUDIO LOGO]
SUBJECT 2: Mystery sound.
MOLLY BLOOM: Are you ready for the mystery sound, Jasmine?
JASMINE: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK.
[CLANK]
What do you think?
JASMINE: Maybe like some pots and pans like banging together in the kitchen.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hmm, very good guess.
JASMINE: I feel like it's like at the end it's like someone plopping down on something.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK.
JASMINE: Maybe.
MOLLY BLOOM: Do you still hear the pots and pans first?
JASMINE: Yeah. I think I still do.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK. Pots and pans and then some plopping. So in what scenario would someone be having pots and pans and then plopping do you think?
JASMINE: Maybe they like just-- I don't really know what scenario. But I think it's in the kitchen.
MOLLY BLOOM: Maybe they're cooking a big dinner. They're exhausted.
JASMINE: And then they just want to sit down on a chair or something.
MOLLY BLOOM: They need a break. Like, I'm going to plop on this chair for a second, catch my breath, and then I'll finish the mashed potatoes. We'll hear it again, get another chance to guess, and hear the answer at the end of the show.
JASMINE: So stick around.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Hey, friends, we're working on an episode all about matches. Those incredible little wooden sticks that make fire when you strike them on a surface. And we want to hear from you. If you could come up with a new name for matches, what would it be? Maybe a spark maker, or flame sprites. Jasmine, what do you think? What is your new name for matches?
JASMINE: Maybe like a mini lava stick.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, yeah. That's a very exciting name. Listeners, please record yourself delivering your new name for matches. You can send them to us at brainson.org/contact. And while you're there, you can send us mystery sounds, drawings, and questions.
JASMINE: Like this one.
SUBJECT 3: What happens if you put too much yeast in bread?
MOLLY BLOOM: Again, that's brainson.org/contact.
JASMINE: And keep listening.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
SUBJECT 4: Brains On.
JASMINE: You're listening to Brains On. I'm Jasmine.
MOLLY BLOOM: And I'm Molly. And today, we're talking about hypnosis.
JASMINE: We started by talking about hypnotherapy, which is when doctors use hypnosis to help their patients.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hypnosis is when you're guided into a calm unique state of mind, sort of like zoning out or playing pretend. And you get there by being totally absorbed in whatever you're imagining.
JASMINE: And when you're in the state of mind, you become more open to new ideas and suggestions.
MOLLY BLOOM: And with the help of a doctor, hypnosis can help you achieve your goals.
JASMINE: You can even learn self-hypnosis to help yourself at home.
MOLLY BLOOM: There's a bunch of research out there that shows hypnosis can help some people's brains feel better. But some people still don't even think it's real.
JASMINE: So let's talk about why some people think about it this way.
MOLLY BLOOM: Well, for one, movies and television make hypnosis seem a little strange or unbelievable. You might have seen hypnosis in movies like Captain Underpants and The Incredibles.
JASMINE: Or in cartoons like Pokémon and Bugs Bunny. And they might have sounded a bit like this.
SUBJECT 5: Watch the pretty coin of gold, and you will do what you are told.
SUBJECT 6: Repeat after me. I don't believe in fairies.
SUBJECT 7: I don't believe in fairies. I don't believe in fairies.
ZACH: Look closely at it and relax your mind.
SUBJECT 8: Zach, why are you showing me an old watch?
ZACH: Shush. Just focus on the watch. Let's talk about dancing. It's--
MOLLY BLOOM: But here's the thing. The hypnosis you see in movies and on TV is not very accurate.
JASMINE: People's eyes don't spin like pinwheels when they're hypnotized.
MOLLY BLOOM: And like we said earlier, it isn't mind control.
JASMINE: You can't make someone do something they don't want to do.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hypnosis is also sometimes used in live magic shows.
JASMINE: Sometimes a performer will get dressed up and hypnotize people on stage in front of an audience just to wow them.
MOLLY BLOOM: These performers use a lot of the same techniques doctors use. Only they aren't trying to help the people on stage.
JASMINE: Yeah, they're just trying to entertain the audience.
MOLLY BLOOM: So sometimes these performers will try to make what they're doing seem like magic.
JASMINE: But it's not.
MOLLY BLOOM: So where did these ideas about hypnosis being magical come from? Franz Mesmer.
FRANZ MESMER: Magical? What poppycock!
JASMINE: Whoa, the ghost of France Mesmer?
FRANZ MESMER: It is I, and I'm hardly magical. I'm mesmerizing.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah, to mesmerize someone means to hold their attention, so they can't look away.
JASMINE: It is hard not to look at you. You've got dazzling eyes, a dashing goatee, and a really cool purple cape.
FRANZ MESMER: Oh, stop, Jasmine. You're making me blush.
MOLLY BLOOM: And the word mesmerize comes from?
FRANZ MESMER: Me, Franz Mesmer, my name. Call me Franz, The mesmerizing Mesmer.
MOLLY BLOOM: Franz Mesmer is often called the father of hypnosis, even though the term hypnosis wasn't invented until decades after he died.
JASMINE: He became famous for using a type of hypnosis to help medical patients feel better.
MOLLY BLOOM: By getting people's brains into that imaginative focused state that we call hypnosis has actually been around for much, much longer.
JASMINE: It was practiced in ancient Greece and Rome, and has been a part of shamanic traditions around the world for centuries.
MOLLY BLOOM: But Franz Mesmer made it popular in Europe. And because he believed in some other pretty strange ideas, people thought he was a little strange too.
FRANZ MESMER: How very rude.
JASMINE: Sorry, but you believed in animal magnetism.
FRANZ MESMER: Of course, I did. I still do.
JASMINE: It makes no sense.
MOLLY BLOOM: Animal magnetism is the theory that all humans have invisible fluid from the stars flowing through thousands of tiny pathways in their bodies.
JASMINE: When people got sick, Mesmer believed that something was blocking these invisible fluids. And it was his job to get them flowing again.
MOLLY BLOOM: To do that, he'd wave his hands in front of his patients' bodies or touch them with magnets and send them into trances. A trance is a lot like that dissociative state we talked about earlier.
JASMINE: And he called this practice mesmerism.
FRANZ MESMER: I wanted to make the name of my technique easy to remember, Mesmer, mesmerism. It's all about branding. Molly, you should start practicing Bloomerism, the practice of podcasting with pizzazz.
MOLLY BLOOM: I'll think about it. But as I was saying, it turns out animal magnetism was not based on real science.
JASMINE: We do not have invisible fluids from the stars flowing through our bodies.
FRANZ MESMER: What?
MOLLY BLOOM: Nope. No invisible star juice. But Mr. Mesmer, you were onto something.
FRANZ MESMER: Of course, I was.
MOLLY BLOOM: Mesmerism, or the practice of sending his patients into trances and suggesting things to them was helping people get better. So throughout the 1800s, psychologists kept trying different versions of Mesmer's techniques. And all the while, patients kept seeing results.
JASMINE: So it was decided that mesmerism wasn't all Hocus Pocus.
MOLLY BLOOM: And it was renamed hypnosis.
JASMINE: And it's still being practiced today.
FRANZ MESMER: See, still totally handsome. Definitely great taste in capes. Well, I must be off, places to go, people to hunt.
MOLLY BLOOM: See ya, Franz.
JASMINE: Bye-bye.
MOLLY BLOOM: So Mesmer's flowing cape, hand-waving, and wild eyes made an impression. Today, we can see stage performers and cartoons use versions of Mesmer's personality and style in their spectacles and shows.
JASMINE: But Molly, there are other reasons why people are not so sure about hypnosis.
MOLLY BLOOM: Right. Because even though research shows that hypnosis works for some people, we don't know exactly how yet or why.
JASMINE: Scientists have studied the brain to try and see what is happening when people are hypnotized.
MOLLY BLOOM: And they found that hypnosis does change the way our brain works.
JASMINE: For example, when people are hypnotized and told that something won't be as painful as they think it would be--
MOLLY BLOOM: The part of their brain that usually lights up and says ow when something hurts, it doesn't react as much during hypnosis.
JASMINE: And because of that, the people actually feel less pain.
MOLLY BLOOM: So something is shifting in our brains when we go into a trance.
JASMINE: Our brains are stepping back, being less judgy, and doing things differently.
MOLLY BLOOM: But we don't really know why.
JASMINE: Hypnosis is a bit of a mystery because when it comes to the brain, there's still a lot to figure out.
MOLLY BLOOM: And mysteries make some people uneasy. But they make me relax-cited. All this hypnosis talk is making me want to try out Rosie's technique of combining thrilling excitement with total relaxation.
JASMINE: Woo. Me too. Want to go meditate on a roller coaster?
MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah, let's go!
[THEME MUSIC]
Hypnosis is a combination of three mental states, dissociation, absorption, and suggestibility.
JASMINE: Which means it feels like dreaming while you're awake. You're totally lost in the movie of your mind.
MOLLY BLOOM: And feeling more open to doing what people suggest to you.
JASMINE: People can't make you do things you don't want to do through hypnosis.
MOLLY BLOOM: And doctors who use it to help their patients are more like coaches who help you achieve your goals.
JASMINE: We don't know exactly how it works, but we know that for many people, it does.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's it for this episode of Brains On.
JASMINE: This episode was written by Rosie DuPont and Lou Baron. It was produced by Molly Bloom, Ruby Guthrie, Anna Goldfield, Aron Woldeslassie, Anna Weggel, and Marc Sanchez.
MOLLY BLOOM: Our editors are Sanden Totten and Shahla Farzan. Sound design by Rachel Breeze with engineering help from Alex Simpson. Beth Perlman is our executive producer. The executives in charge of APM Studios are Chandra Kavati, Alex Schaffert, and Joanne Griffith.
Special Thanks to John Hamilton, Kristen Lundeen, [INAUDIBLE] Rishel, Linda Thompson. And Dr. Daniel Cohen.
JASMINE: Brains On is a nonprofit public radio program.
MOLLY BLOOM: There are lots of ways to support the show. Subscribe to Brains On Universe on YouTube where you can watch animated versions of some of your favorite episodes, or head to brainson.org.
JASMINE: While you're there, you can send us mystery sounds, drawings, and questions.
MOLLY BLOOM: And you can subscribe to our Smarty Pass. It gives you a special ticket to Brains On Universe bonus content plus ad free episodes. OK, Jasmine, are you ready to hear that mystery sound again?
JASMINE: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right. Here it is.
[CLANK]
What do you think?
JASMINE: Now I'm starting to think maybe it's like a chain reaction of some kind.
MOLLY BLOOM: Ooh. what kind of chain reaction?
JASMINE: Maybe like it has to do something with metal, I think.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK. Metals involved. A chain reaction. There was some plopping.
JASMINE: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: Something's happening. I'm going to guess it's a Rube Goldberg machine. It's like one of those contraptions where one thing leads to another, like a marble rolls down and then it makes this thing open, one of those. That's my guess. Should we hear the answer?
JASMINE: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK, here it is.
MAYA: Hi. My name is Maya. And that was the sound of me practicing my gymnastics routine on bars.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow. Amazing.
JASMINE: Yeah. I would never.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
That is a tricky one.
JASMINE: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah, so I guess that was kind of like the springs you were hearing. That was the metal. So you weren't that-- and there was plopping. The end of the routine, there was a plop. So not that far off. Pretty good.
Now it's time for the Brains Honor Roll. These are the incredible kids who keep the show going with their questions, ideas, mystery sounds, drawings, and high-fives.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
[LISTING HONOR ROLL]
SUBJECT 9: Brains Honor Roll.
MOLLY BLOOM: We'll be back next week with a breezy episode all about beachy, beautiful sand.
JASMINE: Thanks for listening.
Transcription services provided by 3Play Media.
